WHY DRAGONS?
by Dr. Michael E. Todd
“And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.” (Revelation 12:3)
It seems like that everywhere we look we see dragons; dragons of all sizes, colors, and types. As a matter of fact we see dragons in books, statues, pictures, videos, movies and even in pottery.
Emblems of dragons are on clothing; sporting goods; and yes, even cute dragons as toys for little children.
If you look up dragons on the internet you will find literally hundreds of sites dedicated to this one subject alone. Hundreds of pictures of dragons are available.
You cannot help but notice the numerous pictures of dragons in the video games. And many of them look so menacing; evil; wicked; ungodly; scary, and downright demonic.
This image was taken from a sweat shirt
What is happening? Why such a fascinating interest in dragons? It never used to be this way.
As most Christians know the dragon has always represented Satan. The Bible is full of references to the dragon and his influence in the last days. He will empower the antichrist. He will control the world.
“And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.” (Revelation 13:2)
“And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.” (Revelation 12:9)
The world will be totally deceived by the dragon and the world is obviously getting ready for him now. Never before in the history of mankind has there been so much interest in Satanism; witchcraft; the occult and other evil practices.
“And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast…” (Revelation 13:4)
The Bible states that the dragon will deceive the whole world through miracles and smooth words.
“And I saw three unclean spirits like frogs come out of the mouth of the dragon, and out of the mouth of the beast, and out of the mouth of the false prophet. For they are the spirits of devils, working miracles, which go forth unto the kings of the earth and of the whole world, to gather them to the battle of that great day of God Almighty.” (Revelation 16:13-14)
We are also in a day when people and yes even Christians are looking for miracles. The Bible states clearly that God can perform miracles, but so can the devil and God help the person that cannot tell the difference.
The Bible says that we should be walking by faith and not by sight according to Biblical principles. Today many professing Christians are walking in the flesh; following so called prophets that supposedly perform miracles.
Job warns against trying to deal with leviathan (the dragon) over in the book of job chapter 41.
“Behold, the hope of him is in vain: shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? None is so fierce that dare stir him up…” (Job 41:9-10)
“Who can open the doors of his face? his teeth are terrible round about.” (Job 41:14)
“Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth. (Job 41:19-21)
“Upon earth there is not his like, who is made without fear.” He beholdeth all high things: he is a king over all the children of pride.” (Job 41:33-34)
Praise God the Devil will one day be thrown down and conquered by the Lord and his power on this earth will cease.
“And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.” (Revelation 20:2)
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10)
Until then however we need to ever be on guard against the wiles of the devil and stand fast in the whole armour of God.
“Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.” (Ephesians 6:11-12)
Dragons are not a bad thing. Dragons don’t exist. They are a mythical creatures that often inspire awe to their beauty, majesty, and power, and wisdom. It should be noted that within other cultures (such as the chinese culture) dragons are viewed as symbols of great fortune, wisdom, and honor.
May God help the person who reads this article and believes that they should ban their children from reading/wearing/watching movies/drawing/having a plush toy/etc of or with anything that has to do with dragons.
Comment by Noah — July 23, 2008 @ 5:27 pm |
Hi Noah, reading your comment makes me feel that you don’t even believe in the Bible at all.
You say: “Dragons are not a bad thing. Dragons don’t exist.” Can you prove that by the Bible? You even claim that dragons are not bad things. Do you know that dragon actually represents the old serpent at Eden and the serpent is Satan himself?
I hope that you will open your heart and receive the truth from the Bible.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — July 23, 2008 @ 7:22 pm |
hey man i completely agree with you about the bad dragon thing, and for the fool who thinks Chinese have dragons, you obviously didn’t do your research. one day a Chinese man traveled to Africa, there he saw a lion. when he returned to china, he told of a creature with big jaws, a mane, and four legs. check out some pictures of Chinese “dragons” do you see any resemblance? and if it was true that it is a dragon, the only reason the Chinese worshiped it was because the dragon is powerful, and wasn’t Satan’s dragon powerful?
just some food for the thought. and a lil tidbit santa and satan have the same letters.
and when responding to unruly site posters, don’t always test their faith it doesn’t make for a good argument
Comment by mike — July 24, 2008 @ 1:27 pm |
Just curious, do you have permission to use these images? if not then you are breaking the law! That is not very Christian. One needs to watch what stones are being slung because no one is without sin.
Comment by jack — July 30, 2008 @ 1:58 pm |
Hi jack,
You should realize that this article is written by Dr. Michael E. Todd NOT me. Dr. Todd gives everyone the right to reproduce this article in its original form (including all the images in this article). Therefore, you should ask Dr. Todd whether he has the right use those images or not. I, however, personally believe that he has the right to use those images since I don’t expect someone who holds a doctorate degree and knows not whether he has the right to use some images.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — July 30, 2008 @ 2:44 pm |
i am 11 years old i am already a chritian and this is so true these things are evil and scary creatures and you explained it well
Comment by jeff johnson — August 18, 2008 @ 5:15 am |
I find your theory(An that’s all it is theory)not to be accurate, i love dragons so much i’ve even got a dragon tattoo, so by loving them does this make me evil?? I think not, i am one of the most descent person you’ll ever meet!!
If you were to research dragon properly you will find they actually represent peace. They are very misunderstood by media an people.
What makes you believe that the bible is referring to dragon, as far as i know no one has even seen a dragon in real life.
Now i’m not a “non-believer” to be honest i’m not sure what i am, an i do believe in god, an evil does not draw me to them, i just find them so amazing
Let me know your response at: ltreges@yahoo.co.uk
Comment by Lucan — August 20, 2008 @ 1:24 pm |
i hate americaaaaa
Comment by i hate america.. mean ppllllll!! — August 20, 2008 @ 8:06 pm |
you guyz think tht ur cool.. but not.. i hate americaaaaaaaaansssssssssssss!!! eWWW
Comment by americans.. i step on you guyzz — August 20, 2008 @ 8:08 pm |
Hi Lucan, since your questions are interesting, I want to post my response here so that other people who have similar concerns like yours can also read it.
You say: “If you were to research dragon properly you will find they actually represent peace.”
That is wrong because nothing in this world represent peace except the Lord Jesus Christ. Only through the Lord Jesus Christ can we have peace till eternity.
You say: “What makes you believe that the bible is referring to dragon, as far as i know no one has even seen a dragon in real life.”
As you can see in the article, Dr. Michael E. Todd already quotes many verses that refer to the dragon as the Satan (i.e. the old serpent at Eden).
You say: “an evil does not draw me to them, i just find them so amazing”
That is usually what happens with all of us. Satan is the master of deceiver and he knows the best way to deceive us. Usually, he throws at us things that look amazing, shiny, and beautiful on the outside but the core of them is death. That is why believers need to rely only on the Bible to distinguish which is of God and which is of the devil.
God bless his faithful servants.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — August 21, 2008 @ 9:59 pm |
What if the dragon is simply symbolical?
Comment by Lee — August 24, 2008 @ 10:08 pm |
To Bearing the cross….
You got a great argument there, an you say the devil deceives us i totally agree but there is no real proof that they are evil now I am really sorry if this offends you I don’t mean it in a bad way but how do you know the bible has not been tampered with I been watching alot of documentary’s on the bible lately an they always going on how the Roman Catholics used to change things to suite them…..( I really dont mean to offend)
I really do understand why dragons can be known as evil but i just don’t believe it.
I read a book which is really good on explaining dragon( Alot of the stuff in the book I don’t believe an it is wrong) but its worth checking out Its Dragonology by DR. Ernest Drake
Comment by Lucan — August 25, 2008 @ 4:40 pm |
Hi Lee and Lucan,
To Lee, whether the dragon is symbolical or not does not matter. The Bible tells us that the dragon itself is the old serpent at Eden (i.e. Satan). Now, it does not matter to Satan whether people draw the dragon as they draw it nowadays or they draw it as something else. The ultimate goal of Satan is to deceive people and lead them away from God. In other words, Satan makes people worship everything but God. The dragon, for centuries, is considered to be a symbol of power, prosperity, peace…etc in Eastern nations and no doubt that there are millions of people who worship the dragon. That is why the dragon is dangerous.
To Lucan, you say: “how do you know the bible has not been tampered with I been watching alot of documentary’s on the bible lately an they always going on how the Roman Catholics used to change things to suite them”
That is absolutely right. Catholicism (either Roman or Orthodox) is the biggest cult in this world which has led billions of people to Hell by their unbiblical teachings and traditions. That is why I am 100% against Catholicism.
The Bible, however, is still preserved nowadays. The King James Bible is the preserved Word of God in English. If you do some researches, you will find out that the KJV and the Catholic Bible actually come from two different texts. The KJV comes from the original Hebrew-Greek text called “Textus Receptus” while the Catholic Bible comes from the corrupted “Wescort-Hort” text. That is why I recommend everyone to use the KJV Bible only.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — August 26, 2008 @ 11:57 am |
hey…i just wanted to say that in China they have the snake alike dragon,that represents good.and they even made a video if dragons were real or not and they gave a very likely explanation about their existance.and i think that dragons can’t be only evil,(no offense) it’s the same if you would say that all the people are good,and u know that aint true.and yes,i am christian and i know about the devil and other stuff,but yet i like dragons,no matter in what kind of light you try to show them,i still think they are magnificant.i think that if you look at the dragon as the devil,it may represent it,but not if you think of the dragon as a dragon-creature that was very powefull..no offence again=)
Comment by Keira — August 27, 2008 @ 11:52 am |
Hi Keira,
Well, you refer to the Chinese people. Let me tell you that I don’t want to insult Chinese but simply to say the truth. That is, the Chinese cultural belief about the dragon is simply heathen (i.e. unbiblical). In fact, Chinese incorporate themselves with Eastern philosophies (like Buddhism, Taoism, Taichi, Yin-Yang…etc) but NOT the Bible. The idea about the dragon and its mystical power is one of those philosophies that Chinese simply believe in.
You say: “i think that dragons can’t be only evil,(no offense) it’s the same if you would say that all the people are good,and u know that aint true.and yes,i am christian and i know about the devil and other stuff,but yet i like dragons,no matter in what kind of light you try to show them,i still think they are magnificant.i think that if you look at the dragon as the devil,it may represent it,but not if you think of the dragon as a dragon-creature that was very powefull..no offence again=)”
Well, the matter is very simple. It is not what I say, or you say, or people say that matter, it is what the Bible says that matters. If you are a Christian, then you must follow the teachings of the Bible alone and reject anything that contradicts with the Bible. To do otherwise is called ecumenism which means that you compromise what the Bible teaches with ideas and philosophies of the heathen world. Ecumenism is a SIN and is strongly condemned by the Lord Jesus Christ. Therefore, there is absolutely no reason why you should believe in the power of dragons, or their supposed ability to bless…etc as the Bible itself condemns the dragon (Satan), the old serpent at Eden.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — August 28, 2008 @ 12:25 am |
well,for example lets say dragons were real.people sometimes said that things that they found scary or couldn’t understand were evil. just like about the witches,they only knew few things more about healing and already they were evil and worshiped satan by other people’s beliefs.and it was far from the truth. so what if they were only marked as the devil because of not knowing what they really were?and besides,many other cultures have dragons in their tales and history,and not in all of them dragons were evil.and i don’t tink they can bless me,i just like them.
Comment by Keira — August 28, 2008 @ 5:18 am |
Umm….i honestly don’t care if your offended by this or not. but the dragon is not always portrayed as evil. If fact their are alot of stories and myths about how dragons are good, honest, and kind. And as for what you said about the bible, if you go all the way back to the Hebrew language you will see that many of the words in the bible can be translated in many different ways with different meanings. So to say that the kjv is perfect is idioticy, things allways get lost in translation. And I am glad you expressed your views on the subject, but if you say that these people HAVE to believe the same thing you do then that is un-christian. In my opinion you shouldn’t tell them what the bible says but instead you should give them the verse so they can look it up themselves. They should read it and discover it for themselves. And as for worshiping dragons, yes that is wrong, I’m not denying that, but that doesn’t mean you should destroy all the images of dragons. You might as well get rid of 99% video games, movies, book, and almost everything else in existence, because of the fact that if you look hard enough you can find something demonic in it. Lets get rid of alphabet soup cause you can spell the following words: satan, hate, anti-christ, demon, and of course dragon.
like I said, I don’t care if any of yall are offended. If yall want to follow someone who may or may not be right then go ahead. I will follow my own path to heaven.
Comment by qwerty — August 29, 2008 @ 10:48 pm |
Hi qwerty,
Here is another article about how the Bible describes Satan: http://onetruegod.wordpress.com/2008/08/17/satan-that-ol-dragon/
If you need verses that describe Satan as the dragon, then this article already contain at least 4 or 5 of them.
You say: “And as for what you said about the bible, if you go all the way back to the Hebrew language you will see that many of the words in the bible can be translated in many different ways with different meanings.”
That is true for some Hebrew and Greek words but NOT for all words in the Bible. There is nothing shady or unclear when it comes to the description of the devil (i.e. Satan – the dragon – the serpent at Eden).
You say: “So to say that the kjv is perfect is idioticy, things allways get lost in translation.”
No, if things are lost in translation, then the Bible is corrupted. Look at the promise of God:
“The WORDS OF THE LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt PRESERVE them from this generation FOREVER.” -Psalm 12:6,7
Thus, God is NOT the author of confusion:
“For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.” 1st Corinthians 14:33
Notice that God also warns about people who come to pervert the Bible (think about modern “translation” of the Bible as an example):
“For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall ADD unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall TAKE AWAY from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.” Revelation 22:18,19
You say: “that doesn’t mean you should destroy all the images of dragons. You might as well get rid of 99% video games, movies, book, and almost everything else in existence, because of the fact that if you look hard enough you can find something demonic in it.”
I don’t ask people to destroy and kill everything or everyone that do not believe in God. I am a Christian NOT a radical Muslim. God commands us to SEPARATE from the wicked world, that is, we need to abstain from every wicked and demonic things that the world throws to us. However, it does not mean that we should run to the streets with guns in our hands and destroy everything that is not of God. Physical violence is a sin and an abomination in God’s eyes. Christians cannot compromise the truth taught in the Bible with the wickedness of the secular world.
I hope that will clarify some of my thoughts in my previous comments.
God bless his faithful servants.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — August 31, 2008 @ 1:09 pm |
and here u say:I am a Christian NOT a radical Muslim. and the bible says:Judge not, that you be not judged.over and out
Comment by Keira — September 6, 2008 @ 11:29 am |
Hi Keira,
I sincerely recommend you to read all articles in this category (link below) to understand more about the issue of making judgments (not in the sense of condemnation but simply to warn others).
http://onetruegod.wordpress.com/category/biblical-doctrine-making-righteous-judgments/
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — September 7, 2008 @ 12:56 pm |
You sa that all physical violence is a sin. I don’t want to question you, but i really want to know. And besides, you can’t find find the truth without the questions. So when their were wars in the Bible made by God own people, was that not a sin when God condemed then to being killed by his own people? They were doing as God told them, but they killed people, which would be a sin. And what about self defense? If you are attacked, what can you do to save yourself and not sin at the same time.
Comment by Whatever you want to call me — September 11, 2008 @ 8:06 am |
Hi commenter #21,
I will give you some brief facts as answers to your question:
1. God forbids murdering because it is injustice. God is the God of justice, so when we murder someone for our own hatred (or for no reason), we are breaking the justice of God.
2. Murdering and killing in general are different. Murdering originates from hatred, in fact, it is the outside expression of our hatred toward others. Killing means the taking of other people’s lives. You may “kill” someone when he/she attacks you and you need to defend yourself. However, you cannot “murder” someone when he/she attacks you and you defend yourself.
3. The killing that God forbids us is the killing resulted from hatred. That is, we cannot kill people because they don’t like us, or because they don’t believe like us, or because they are different from us…etc. The Lord Jesus Christ makes that point very clear when he says: “Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him” -1 John 3:15.
Let me give you an excellent excerpt from Dwight L. Moody’s classic sermon: The Ten Commandments.
“Thou shalt not kill. I USED TO SAY: “What is the use of taking up a law like this in an audience where, probably, there isn’t a man who ever thought of, or ever will commit, murder?” But as one gets on in years, he sees many a murder that is not outright killing. I need not kill a person to be a murderer. If I get so angry that I wish a man dead, I am a murderer in God’s sight. God looks at the heart and says he that hateth his brother is a murderer.
First, let us see what this commandment does not mean.
It does not forbid the killing of animals for food and for other reasons. Millions of rams and lambs and turtledoves must have been killed every year for sacrifices under the Mosaic system. Christ Himself ate of the Passover lamb, and we are told definitely of cases where He ate fish and provided it for His disciples and the people to eat.
It does not forbid the killing of burglars or attackers in self-defense. Directly after the giving of the Ten Commandments, God laid down the ordinance that if a thief be found breaking in and be smitten that he die, it was pardonable. Did not Christ justify this idea of self-defense when He said: “If the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up” (Mt 24:43).
It does not forbid capital punishment. God Himself set the death penalty upon violations of each of the first seven commandments, as well as for other crimes. God said to Noah after the deluge, “Whoso sheddeth man’s blood, by man shall his blood be shed” (Gen 9:2);and the reason given is just as true today as it was then–”for in the image of God made he man.”
What it does forbid is the wanton, intentional taking of human life under wrong motives and circumstances. Man is made in God’s image. He is built for eternity. He is more than a mere animal. His life ought therefore to be held sacred. Once taken, it can never be restored. In heathen lands human life is no more sacred than the life of animals; even in Christian lands there are heartless and selfish men who hold it cheap; but God has invested it with a high value. An infidel philosopher of the eighteenth century said: “In the sight of God, every event is alike important; and the life of a man is of no greater importance to the universe than that of an oyster.” “Where is the crime,” he asked, “of turning a few ounces of blood out of their channel?” Such language needs no answer.”
If you want to read the whole sermon, here is the link: http://onetruegod.wordpress.com/2008/07/01/the-ten-commandments/
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — September 11, 2008 @ 11:18 pm |
i think that dragons are more symbolic, but they should not be paraded around. but if you do have a disagreement with someone and you don’t talk to them in brotherly love then you have committed sin against them and God. If you guys are going to say something be sure you can back it up with scripture because you will have to give an account of what you say to God, not only in the next life, but in this one too.
Comment by jay — September 12, 2008 @ 2:35 pm |
yes drgons may not be real but the are so dreamy and mistical
Comment by shara — September 24, 2008 @ 11:36 am |
yes i totaly agree shara dragons are not real but r mistiacl and dreamy
Comment by ashly — September 24, 2008 @ 11:40 am |
Hi shara and ashly,
There are many shiny and beautiful things in this world but the Word of God teaches us that we should judge everything whether they are of God or not. Dragon is clearly NOT of God, in fact, the Bible even refers to Satan (the devil) as dragon. Therefore, we believers should not involve with anything that glorify the image of dragon.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — September 28, 2008 @ 2:12 am |
sorry but my comment goes right back to the start ;)
to commenter #3 and your “food for thought”:
The way “Santa” is spelled now is very different from its origin. The myth of Santa Claus comes from a very old Macedonian king called Nicolas, who, in a very bad winter when his people seemed to be suffering and dieing, went around and gave to them what he had, so that they may survive the time. Because of this christian gesture he was sainted and in the original Italian he was called phonetically, San Niclaus, through the bad English pronunciation of the italian;) and time it turned into again phonetically, Santa Claus. The name “Santa” has therefore nothing to do with Satan, it is simply something changed, as language everywhere changes
regards
Comment by Daniel — September 28, 2008 @ 10:04 am |
YO
LOOK AIGHT DRAGONS AREN’T BAD OK WHAT WE MAKE OF THEM IS IF YOU WANA SAY THAT DRAGONS ARE BAD THEN WHAT OF US HUMANS HAVE DONE MORE WRONG IN THIS WORLD THAN ANYTHING THAT CAN BE READ! DRAGONS ARE ANIMALS OK PEOPLE KILL MURDER AND RAPE WHEN HAS A DRAGON EVER DONE THAT?? NEVER AND THEY ARE SO EVIL WHY HAVEN’T WE AS A HUMAN RACE EVER JUST REMOVED IT FROM TXT?? BECAUSE ITS NOT BAD DRAGINS ARE WHAT YOU MAKE OF IT. PV-2 TREVINO
Comment by SOUJA BOI — September 28, 2008 @ 12:37 pm |
HOW GIRL GET PRAGNANT?
Comment by HOW IS BABBY FORMED? — September 30, 2008 @ 8:08 pm |
i would like 2 say that those who live their lives based mostly on a book, & not what they see around them need 2 open their eyes! im not sayin not 2 beleive, only 2 be open 2 all possibilities. those that sit on their high stool & judge others for their beliefs & try 2 force ones beleifs unto others isnt a way 2 save their souls. its hyppocracy 2 say ‘ judge not lest ye be judged’ 2 others, yet judge those as ‘evil’ or ‘wrong’ who’s beliefs do not coincide with yours. i beleive the true path 2 peace & enlightenment is 2 not judge others 4 their beliefs, but 2 love those around u. if u let love fill ur heart instead of peity & righteousness, that love will spill out around you unto others, giving those you car about true peace. trying 2 manipulate them or downright forceing them 2 ’see things your way’ while claiming it as ‘the only right way’ is not only unfair, 2 them but it is bordering on sin itself. if their is any judging 2 be done, the eternal mother & father will see 2 that. worry not for the task of judgment was never meant for humans. our own beleifs & morals get in the way of true understanding. only the creators are capable of true understanding & love! so please stop trying 2 force yourself unto others, claiming it as ‘gods will’ & as far as the bible goes, it is not a complete telling of the past. anyone who knows anything about history knows that many centuries ago, alexander the great & all the high up clergymen of the catholic church, had a meeting 2 determine what stories were put into the bible, & what stories & points of view were left out! most of the stories that were rejected, were then either destroyed or locked away for what they hoped 2 be eternity. by evidenced of the findings of the deep sea scrolls & others like, it, not all were lost. but many were. catholocism one the religeious war with the pagans, then forced their belifs unto them. those that refused were killed. now does that sound like what the all loving jesus christ would want? i think not. now if you think of the mistakes that were made in the past, trying 2 force whole countries to 1 religion, why in the name of all that is holy & sacred, would you wish 2 try 2 push your belifs off on people 2day!!! please explain this abomination 2 me for i have yet 2 grasp this notion of ‘gods love’ if your neighboor was say, a wiccan, worshipped a mother & father, nature, & all that is good & loving. would you still hate & fear them, call them ‘devil worshippers as your ancestors did in that hated decade of fear, torment & hell on earth! or would you open your eyes & see we are all children on this earth. would you see that this neighboor, your sibling as it were, wishes for peace & love eternal, just as you do. just because some worshipes differently than you do, or has an affinity for a different animal than you, maybe even one you fear, it doesnt matter. your hopes of peace are exactly the same as your neighboors. as far as the bible’s refrences 2 the dragon being the devil, man has always feared what it doesnt understand. ancient man had no means of studying or understanding the great dragon in its time. so they feared it, & turned it into a creature of evil incarnate. fear leads 2 anger, anger leads 2 hate, & hate leads 2 suffering. be wise lest ye fall into this spiral of death, for unlike the dragon, it will bring ye great misfortune. oh & by the way, did u kno that all of the creatures, symbols, & even the magical items & plants used by pagans in the ancient healing arts all were transformed into this & beings of evil? the ancient pagans never even origionally beleved in a devil, untill the christians created 1. there may have been mischevious spirits, & tricksters, but none were evil. infact christianity’s devil, is very like in appearance 2 one of the pagans fertillity gods. he has the horns & hookes of a goat. coincidence? i think not! to get more supporters, the catholic church spread fear to those weak minded enough, changing all the pagan god & goddesses 2 demons & devils. those who did not fall for the church’s trickery were either totured until they ‘repented’ or were out right killed! for these crimes against their own fellow men & women i could never trust in the catholic church. the christian church still follows the same basic beliefs, afraid 2 go back 2 the old beliefs. but the pagans are growing in numbers again after so long as the minority. i hope 1 day we can all live in peace & harmony, but untill we stop pointing the finger at people next 2 us, & start looking at ourselves, & how we can make ourselves better… well untill that day comes, our future is bleak.
with regards, & many bright blessings, Ebon Wing
Comment by Ebon Wing — October 1, 2008 @ 10:14 pm |
i think what you wrote is farily interesting,but i am sorry,religion in a whole has lost all respect to the world,it is now fueled by blind greed an has proven to everyone that keeps a close eye on it.i do believe dragons will rise an i do believe there real,whether they are evil or whether they are good,id rather take my bets with them over the assumed reality that so many religios beliefs rape mankind of.perhaps youre bible is rite,but im leaning closer to fear tactics to keep humans moral structures together,it is youre crutch an thats fine,everyone needs somthing?
Comment by dan — October 4, 2008 @ 4:12 am |
I find it interesting that the attempts by christians to force their ideals upon people willing to think and decide for themselves still continue. Dragons were respected symbols of wisdom and power for centuries before the bible came. This entire thread is a classic example of ancient missionaries attempting to convert “pagans”
Did you know that Christmas is currently celebrated in December in a direct attempt to steal the winter solstice from pagans of europe? Christmas was celebrated in April for centuries. When pagans refused to stop celebrating the “Long Night” church leaders moved the holiday so pagans would HAVE to also celebrate the chrisian holiday
Go learn some history before you decide to use a book you cant even read in its original language to justify hatred and prejudice.
Comment by Shadow Dragon — October 4, 2008 @ 6:24 pm |
i aplaude the shadow dragon an i would also like to talk to you ,you seem to no more precise history i think,i no this feed is open but email me at dragoneye666@live.com,
Comment by dan — October 4, 2008 @ 7:33 pm |
just wanna say that i have scrolls that say that the dragon is not evil but as the devil came the dragons hate for humans joined them with the devil but there hatred was because humans youst to attack them for no reason whatsoever the scrolls are over 3000 years old perserved because they where made in hard leather to be preserved forever it took a while to decipher it but it also says that the dragon was peasefull but they were abused as folowers of the devil because of there appearance and abbility to breath fire they were killed for supposedly attacking cattle but some villagers found out that it was not the dragons that killed there cattle the creature is unclear but another scroll says that satan was hatful because humans killed his mate his chldren his brother and his father and gave himself over to the devil for revenge.also a scroll says that a dragon saved a child in a mountain village and there are storys and myths about the matter.if all dragons were evil why was some of the symbols on shilds dragons and my father recently recieved a locked dockumentory im sorry if i make spelling mistakes im not from america but i went there once it was so great anyway in the locked documentory there was battle lists of dragons even some dragon names like dervon,goytid,and harmot i dont know what its about but some names where ritten in orange some in red maybye orange is good and red is evil or something there is more to the documentary but my dad hasent deciphered it all yet. I LIKE DRAGONS ALOT BUT I DONT KNOW WHAT ALL THIS MEANS MAYBYE THERE WAS DRAGONS BEFORE YOU KNOW.
Comment by mystic — October 16, 2008 @ 5:20 am |
dragons rock
rooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
they rooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolroooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool
Comment by doooooom — October 16, 2008 @ 5:35 am |
well after reading most post i can honestly say what im apalled. dragons have long been in folklore as evil nasty vival creatures, if you look in europe folklore that is. the chinese, japanise, buddish, and most pagan religions have always looked as dragons to be all powerful symbols. dragons represent power, knowledge, and strength. they rule over elements, moods, and emotions. did you know that dragons aren’y serpents, even though some have serpent features? dragons are mystical beings. everyone heard of the knight in shining honor slaying the dragon who destroyed villages and saved the princess in destress, but have you ever heard the story of the dragon who sayed a village from a volcano? or the dragon that would protect travelers that got lost in the black woods and lead them to safe havens? most people have not. most cristian do look at dragons as the serpent that lead adam and eve from gods holy land, but in really that serpent was a symbol also, that evil can seek up when you least expect it and tempt you. making such bold statements that dragons are evil is like saying that the foodwe eat is evil. some of the food we eat is harmful to certain people so with your reasoning food is evil are we should starve. how can you claim that sometings evil, when you have never met a dragon? you dont know what they could teach you if you would only open your mind to outside ideas instead of a book that is misunderstood.
dragons yes are scary if you dont want to understand them but if you take the time to relate the teaching of dragonlore you could understand that they want to teach instead of destroy.
i really dont care if you think im full of it but just once think for yourself instead of being told what to think and you will find a whole new world thats within your grasp.
Comment by concerned — October 16, 2008 @ 3:08 pm |
ifyou canmail me some dragins
Comment by john — October 16, 2008 @ 3:58 pm |
I find it funny how poorly this post seems to have gone for the OP. Poor guy, out to prove that dragons are evil, a sign of Satan. What does he get? A room full of dragon friends. Dragons always have and always will exist outside of scripture. Never mind the fact that the bible plaigerizes several ancient documents, not the least of which being the legendary Gilgamesh, in an attempt to create a history for itself. Never mind that the bible can be proven flat out wrong on several levels by even an entry level history student. The point I’m trying to make is simply thus: Dragons cannot be subdued by imposing christian belief systems on them. Christians, Catholics in particular, have constantly attempted to stamp out other religion all over the world. The do this by demonizing the symbols and characters of competing religions. The shame and degrade non-christians. All in an attempt to prove themselves superior. In an attempt to show how shamefully foolish this type of evangelical revisionist history is, a good friend of mine has given the Christian religion the same treatment from an imaginary new religion’s standpoint. The uproar was quite humorous and went a long way to prove what hipocratic, dogmatic and, reactionary bigots so called “Christians” are as a group.
Sometimes the dragons win, that’s why were still around.
Comment by Shadow Dragon — October 17, 2008 @ 3:29 pm |
Me again. I enjoyed Qwerty’s post.
I am also kinda surprised at your stating of being “a christian, not a radical muslim.” Radical christians are a lot more scary to me than muslims. Let’s not be racist here.
Anyways, the bible to me is just a big collection of fairy tales. There are a lot of good stories with good moral teachings, but also a lot of bad stories that are misleading (ex. the portrayal of witches in fairy tales, and the portrayal of homosexuals in the bible), but it shouldn’t be taken any more seriously than Cinderella or Jack and the Bean Stalk. Myth and folklore definitely serve their purpose, but to follow them so strongly as to base ones daily actions and rituals on them is irrational.
Live a good life, and practice empathy. Does one really need an entire book to explain how to do that?
Comment by Noah — October 26, 2008 @ 5:20 am |
hi i was reading this argument and must say that man wrote the bible not god so how do we know it is correct and how can u judge dragons in this way according to the bible as what if some guy was really ennoyed and made a load of stuff up about em
Comment by alex — October 27, 2008 @ 9:53 am |
also dragons influence alot of art and culture and saying it belongs to satan is condemning just about every country to hell and how can god e so great if people are starving across the world and dieing? and who r we to say it is satan doing it when it could be god? also if it is satan an not god then it proves who is stronger on this world does’nt it
Comment by Anonymous — October 27, 2008 @ 9:56 am |
How can you be so sure that a creature you have no understanding about is evil. If any thing the bible is evil. A book created to cast a spell over mankind to brainwash as many as possible. A book that contradicts itself over and over again.
Yes, it gives some people hope or a direction to their life. But think how many people it kills on a daily basis. For example, rednecks who kick the shite out of someone for saying God is not real.
By the way, thats not what I AM saying. Maybe there is a higher power, maybe not.
Now, the dragon. As history tells, supposedly this creature killed. But gives hope to millions of Chinese, Japanese etc. (Born in the year of the dragon is meant to bring wealth and good fortune).
So really the dragon is on a par wih the bible. Just as good, Just as bad.
This is a really simplified idea. But the basic message is: Good is something that helps us ALL. Evil is something that does not. If you genuninly believe what you state (”bearing the cross” – which by the way implies you think you are a messiah) then you have been brainwashed.
PS. Do you also believe you are going to heaven? Last time I heard it was full.
Comment by dragon — October 27, 2008 @ 2:51 pm |
Here’s another question for you, do you believe that witches are evil?
Comment by Noah — October 31, 2008 @ 12:43 pm |
As a side note connected to my statement earlier: Apparently you haven’t bothered to actually read the source of ANY of your quotes on the top of the page. The King James version of the Bible does indeed translate the Hebrew word “Tanniym” or “Tanniyn” as Dragon. It also translates the same word as Jackal, Serpent, Monster and Reptile. Seems to me as though the translator of the King James Edition simply chose a translation that, to him, represented something to be feared and avoided. Almost any modern scholar will tell you the word is intended to represent “A type of desert creature” not dragons in specific.
Again, ignorance is not an excuse for bigotry. If you cant be bothered to learn the facts underlying your statements, please don’t attempt to preach to those who WILL prove you wrong.
I respect a person’s right to believe anything they wish to. I will not, however, allow them to use their ignorance in an attempt to persecute others. If you feel secure in your faith then, by all means, please enjoy the comfort faith and religion is intended to bring to people. As soon as you attempt to use your faith as a weapon against others you violate even the tenants of your Catholic faith.
Comment by Shadow Dragon — November 3, 2008 @ 10:40 am |
Dear “Bearing the Cross”
I cannot make up my mind whether dragons are good or evil. Please help.
Comment by Ghidora — November 6, 2008 @ 7:47 am |
I disagree with this entire article. I am a die-hard Catholic, I love my faith and am fully dedicated to it. But as far as dragons go, I have looked at old Latin texts of the Bible, and other documents. Latin didn’t even have a word for dragon until much later, long after the Bible was written, they have draco now, but they didn’t then. Hebrew I don’t think ever had a word for dragon, and Greek, I’m not sure about, but I also don’t believe they had a word for dragon.
The actual translations are generally said to be ‘beast’, ‘monster’, ’serpant’, and ‘creature of terror’, and of course you have the ‘multi-headed beast’. No where is it said straightout, dragon. (That I can recall, I apologize if I have missed things in my study.)
I have several friends who are dragons but they’re fine with snakes. Why is that? Snakes should be potrayed just as bad, shouldn’t they? They appear just as much, if not more, as the devil than the ‘beasts’ But they’re not, are they? Is it because they actually exist? Does that make sense to you? I think not.
Though to be completely technical, in Genisis, the word is not snake either. It is generally thought to be “Giant water snake”, or “serpant”. It wasn’t a snake, so to speak, it was a giant water creature, or so is said by people who study the Bible for a living.
Dragons have many symbolic meanings. You can’t go into China and say “Your symbal for good luck and fortune is evil and demonic!”, they would probably kill you.
I understand why people would dislike dragons through the information you have given but it’s illfounded. The English translations of the Bible are so full of gaps and mistakes, ask any priest, religous official, or anyone who studies the Bible. The copies and hear about in our given language are not by any stretch accurate. You can’t go prophasizing against a mythical creature without the facts, which you do not have.
Comment by Emily S — November 11, 2008 @ 3:10 pm |
Hey just a thought theres hundred of versions of the bible and not all of them refer to dragon, in some it will say serpent, a few will actually say a lion. You have to remember that the bible has been re-written by man and corrupt churches that use excessive fear to intimidate it’s people into religion…anyone remember the Inquisition? Hmmm, just a thought. Dragons are symbols of strength, peace and will, and in recorded history pre-date christianity. If you look far enough into recorded history you will find a period where christianity is the pagan belief (remember the fish drawing now car decor) and the mainstream belief was earthly magick. Just more for you to consider and maybe think outside of the realm of “well this christian guy said it so it must be true”…all man is capable of deceit and speaking without impartial standing, its like telling a child all of its life that the sky is not actually blue rather that it is pink, of course they will believe it because their mind is looking for the answers to the world and when coming from someone they feel they can trust anything is believed. I guess that point is step outside yourself see if you are wearing blinders that keep you in tunnel vision and take the opportunity to see the world through the eyes of another understand where they are coming from…Perception is 9/10ths reality yet only 1/3rd actuality. This mean on average we can be 90%sure on most things but there is always 1 moment of doubt in our firmest beliefs, but there are 3 on actual fact…1 your view, 2 the views of others, 3 the constant view both impartial and unbiast
Comment by Josh — November 14, 2008 @ 11:25 am |
@ Josh: Part of what you said there is what I was trying to get at towards the end of my post.
Being Bearing of the Cross has not replied I’m thinking maybe something finally got through to him. Shucks, I was looking foward to arguing with him. :]
Comment by Emily — November 17, 2008 @ 10:19 pm |
This is just sad. Educate yourself man. The bible being written when it was used the word and image “dragon” to scare the illiterate of the time. The bible says that Satan was a beautiful angel and is the lord of lies. Seems to me that also he was mentioned as a snake in genesis …. A snake NOT a dragon. Not to mention that , and it’s MY belief , the creatures in the Revelations are metaphorical in nature. I mean seriously who wouldn’t fill their drawers IF they saw this “And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power” And I have news for you….crying about it like you are…..not going to change nor put off the end. GOD has it written in his own time line. NOTHING we or say will change or delay it…. Either be right with GOD or be damned….it’s your choice.
Comment by Terry — November 17, 2008 @ 11:44 pm |
to bearing the cross
Dude, I am a christian. I love God more than ANYTHING! But still I love dragons and I use any waking moment to write about or draw dragons. And what you think of dragons is intirely up to you! People have their own opinions about dragons and other stuff! There is no right or wrong answer, it’s an opinion. And you have yours and I have mine. But I don’t nessesarily believe that dragons are evil and only evil. There is such thing as a good dragon if you roll to the top of the page. There is a dragon in heaven, and there’s some in hell which means that there is such thing as both.
Dragons rock!! and that’s my opinion.
Comment by Hannah — November 19, 2008 @ 1:44 am |
Man you guys are barking up the wrong tree attacking some one’s like’s and dislikes is self rightious and will never win any one to the lord and top of that it means you are full of pried and not right with god your self I have found in my own life that the only way to witness is with a humble and meek sprite and to live life as a example
as for the dragon God refers to Jesus as a dragon with ram horns in revalations just like Jesus is the Lion of the tribe of Juda and it refers to the devil as a roaring lion thees are not conturdictions but typeologys
Remmaber that God created every thing and then called it good NOT bad not ok GOOD that means that Dragons dinosaurs Lions lambs dotobirds heck even mosquito where Good ya the devil got his hands in there and twisted things into a mess but they are Gods creations
Comment by Daniel — November 28, 2008 @ 12:53 pm |
Hi everyone, I’m back, off-course, after a few months of hassle dealing with my insurance company (Ike is devastated) and getting my spine examined a bit. What really amazes me is the number of people comment on this and how they all feel the same toward this message. Since there are many comments right now (and I really appreciate your effort of putting your opinions out here), I will not response to each of those individually (sorry, I don’t have time to do so)but I will response to some common arguments which keep repeating in many of those comments.
1) “You are a bigot/hater/bitter old man/blind/dumb…….etc”
Well, I don’t know what to say at all. I will be what you think I am when you fail to tame down your personal emotion no matter what is said in the article. By the way, I don’t write this article and you should realize that by looking at the name of the author of this article.
2) “Dragons are not evil because I feel that way.”
Yes, because you feel that way. Unfortunately, this article is not about how you feel about dragons, it is about what the Bible has to say about the dragon.
3) “There are good dragons and bad dragons.”
Just like there are good angels and bad angels, right? Sorry, I don’t think so because the Bible never mention anything about so called “good dragons” at all.
4) “Dragons are good because they are God’s creatures.”
Well, God also gives all of His creatures (including humans) the gift of freewill. They all have the freewill to decide whether they will be good or evil.
5) “You cannot force your Christian belief down to my throat.”
I don’t force anything down to your throat at all. This article is honest about what the Bible and a mature Christian have to say about the dragon. If you are not a Christian and you love dragons, fine, you have your way. I don’t come to your house to persecute you or trying to murder your children.
6) “Are you calling me evil because I love dragons?”
No, I don’t neither does this article. We are humans, we all make mistakes and we all sin. Pointing out that dragons are evil is not to call you an evil person but to (hopefully) awake you and lead you to the things that are good and Godly.
7) “I am a Christian/Catholic/religious person and I love dragons no matter what you say.”
Congratulation, you are one of millions of professed Christians out there who love many weird things including rock music, drinking alcohol, sensual TV shows…etc. I am not saying that you are a pervert or an alcoholic for loving dragons, I just say that there is a similarity between you and those professed Christians out there, that is the lack of upholding the biblical teachings and values in normal life.
8) “The Bible is wrong because it is translated many times/written by men…etc.”
This article is not about the Bible so please save yourself some time and do honest researches about the Bible to understand where it comes from, what are the original languages of the Bible, what are the differences between the KJV and other “versions” (yes, there are huge differences bewtween them)…etc.
9) “The Bible does not say anything about dragons/the word “dragon” in the Bible is a wrong translation of the original Hebrew/Greek.”
The Bible does have many things to say about dragons. This article alone contains five or six quotes about the dragon and you can find more if you read the whole Bible. About translation mistakes, I just don’t understand what is wrong with people who try to evade the truth from bringing that up. “Dragon” is not an appropriate word choice??? The Bible also mentions about serpents, lions, doves, wolves…etc, are they suddenly not appropriate word choices because you don’t want those animals to be mentioned about in the Bible? The Bible is God’s precious Words, if it was wrong then what is right then?
10) “Dragons already exist in many other cultures/folklores/fairy tales…etc and they are the symbol of knowledge/strength/wealth…etc.”
Hey, I am not a cultures/folklores/fairy tales…etc worshiper, I am a Christian and I worship God of the Bible. And please don’t tell me that the Bible plagiarizes things from some ancient Chinese books, I am getting tired of those things. Do you seriously believe that the Chinese will keep their silence if the Bible stole their copyrighted philosophies?
Above are my responses to some common arguments surrounding this article. I hope those responses will help clear up some matters/opinions about this article.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — November 29, 2008 @ 4:14 pm |
Welcome Back :)
1)”A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable.” — Wikipedia
2)First of all, Id like to hear you define evil. Evil is a purely subjective turn, even in the context of religion. Secondly because evil IS a subjective term, YES, any person can define it as he or she feels fit. That includes the ability to define each moral and behavioral situation the person may find them self in according to the criteria they have established on their own.
3)Again, the bible NEVER mentions dragons as dragons at all. Stated above, the bible uses terms of generic monstrosity to describe several creatures.
4)I will actually agree with you on this one. Free will, should allow each person/creature to decide on their own between being “Good” and “Evil.” If dragons cant choose, then Free Will, the foundation for much of your distinction between the two, does not truely exsist, and we might as well move on to predeterminism.
5)But Christians HAVE come to the homes of others and murdered women and children. Then forcing the survivors to convert, at sword point, to their religion. The Crusades were a shameful time for a religion supposedly based on love and forgiveness.
6)Your assessment of what is good or evil is simply your own. Pointing out danger to another, while generally better than not, can often lead to embarrassment or worse when no danger exists.
7)”Lack of upholding the biblical teachings and values in normal life.”
“The Oxford English Dictionary defines “normal” as ‘conforming to a standard’. This, although almost right, is not entirely correct. “A normal” is someone who conforms to the ideals of society.” –Wikipedia.
Who’s standard are we talking about here? I think it would be safe to say that such Radical Fundamental Catholics as yourself would be in the minority here. Making you “not normal.”
8)If you attempt to use the bible as the foundation of your argument, then this IS about the veracity of your source material. Once again the bible never refers to dragons, by name, in its original text.
9)”The Bible is God’s precious Words, if it was wrong then what is right then?” You are using an emotional argument to refute translation errors. Next thing we will be dealing with is The Four Motorcyclists of the Apocalypse? Since most of the bible was written almost 2000 years ago several terms, literary conventions and ideas have changed since then. Please try to use empirical facts instead of “because you don’t want” if you’re going to claim translation error do not validate an argument.
10)Please refer to point 1. You have just demonstrated in one sentence all the qualities outlined in the definition of bigot.
Please remember that every person in the world has the right to choose a path on their own. Good and Evil will always be subjective. Critical thinking is the real key to deciding what constitutes good and evil, and the difference between them. Think long and hard on what you believe the bible is telling you. I think you’ll be surprised at what it ISNT saying.
Shadow Dragon
Comment by Shadow Dragon — November 30, 2008 @ 7:03 am |
So basically when christianity was first forming, they had to ensure that people believed in them and no one else, so they created rules against worshipping other symbols or gods. This included anyone practicing any pagan ritual (think one million people tortured and burned alive for being a “witch”). So if you were found praising a totem of a pagan fertility god, a goat, or a dragon, you were a sinner. It is all about control and power, not what God wants or believes.
Comment by Noah — December 2, 2008 @ 5:16 pm |
haha Noah that is a crazy way of looking at things but I say you are way off the mark
when Christians were first called Christians it was back in a place called Antioch and they were called that because they were Christ “Like” and if you know anything about history Christ was a man who went about healing every one and teaching man to love their enemies and to do good unto those who spitefully use you
ever heard the saying turn the other cheek that’s what Jesus taught
What you’re talking about happened hundreds of years later that all happened because wicked men used religion for power and control.
True Christianity is based mainly on two scriptures. Love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, mind, soul and strength and love thy neighbor as thyself. If you truly love God and your neighbor purity of the heart and kindness will abound. Not a judgmental spirit that condemns and kills people just because of what they look like and their actions. Or beliefs
Comment by Daniel — December 2, 2008 @ 6:42 pm |
Hi Shadow Dragon, thank you for your comment.
Here are my answers to your queries:
1. “A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind.”
So true! Dr. Todd has his own right as a Christian and an American to express his own opinions about dragons. In fact, he does not express many of his opinions at all, he just simply points out what the Bible has to say about dragons. However, because his view (and his belief) is way inconvenient to you, he suddenly turns into a bigot. Put it another way, he is a bigot because some one out there are intolerant of his view (and belief). What a great irony, isn’t it?
2. “First of all, Id like to hear you define evil.”
This is very simple. Evil is everything that opposes to God. By the way, if I was a poor man who has nothing to eat, it would be justifiable for me to steal some little amounts of money, right? WRONG!!! There is no excuse for being a sinner. Yes, life changes but God has His own standards which do not change (I know that because the Bible tells me so).
3. “Again, the bible NEVER mentions dragons as dragons at all.”
Please read this article and the Bible first before declaring anything.
4. “If dragons cant choose, then Free Will, the foundation for much of your distinction between the two, does not truely exsist, and we might as well move on to predeterminism.”
Well, no. Dragon (Satan) does have the freewill to choose and he does choose his own path which is evil. The same thing happens to Adam and Eve. They have the freewill to choose and they choose the path of sins.
5. “The Crusades were a shameful time for a religion supposedly based on love and forgiveness.”
You need to know that the people who stand behind the Crusades are actually Catholics and they are no Christians. Believe me or not, you can search the history for yourself. The Vatican has been known for burning alive Protestants (whose “sin” is publishing the Bible so that everyone can read it) and confiscating their properties (hey, “believers of God” need some big castles too, right? ) Throughout history, true Christians never kill or persecute any non-believer, in fact, they have been known for being persecuted by many non-blievers or believers of different religions.
6. “Your assessment of what is good or evil is simply your own. Pointing out danger to another, while generally better than not, can often lead to embarrassment or worse when no danger exists.”
But if it exists and people listen not, then they will have no excuse.
7. “Who’s standard are we talking about here?”
It’s the Christian “standard” or I should say Christian values and teachings. By the way, I am not surprise when an atheist or a Buddhist or whoever that is not a Christian happen to fall in love with the dragon but I am sure surprise when a professed Christian does.
8. “Please try to use empirical facts instead of “because you don’t want” if you’re going to claim translation error do not validate an argument.”
Sorry, but I don’t claim “translation error do not validate an argument”. What I claim is “there is NO translation error in the Bible”. Think about it for a moment, a Christian believes that the Bible is God’s precious Words. If he/she also believes that the Bible contains errors, then what kind of God he/she actually believes in?
9. Some final points: I am NOT a Catholic, I AM a Christian. Thus, the Bible does not say about many things. It does not teach me how to do math, conduct a chemistry experiment, design an engineering process, follow the latest fashion trend, writing computer programs…etc, you know, all things that end when my life ends, and yes, I may be surprise to know how many things that end when my life ends, should I?
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — December 2, 2008 @ 9:25 pm |
Welcome back! I was hoping you’d return.
I do not have time to read everything and do all the searches to get quotes that I would like to being I am, afterall, 14 and in highschool not to mention all the other stuff I have to do, but I have scanned most of it and will comment do on said scan.
The word for dragon in Latin is “Draco”, problem with Latin, however is, words can mean many things. Draco for instance can mean beast, serphant, dragon, or monster. Therefore you can’t claim that dragons were mentioned when the word “dragon” was merely added as the best fit for what the Bible was saying.
I do, however, apologize, because I was mistaken, “Draco” is used in the Latin Vulgate, therefore dating the word dragon back to a approved Latin version of the Bible. And Dracon was used in Greek Mythology dating back even farther. However, that said, the Greek Dracon was not quite dragon like, more of a serphant, which is another translation of the word.
I also agree that animals are given Free Will, therefore allowing them to chose. But can an animal have a sense of what is right and wrong? Do animals have a soul? I think it’s widely agreed that they do not. Therefore how can you condemn them for their actions if they have no knowledge of right or wrong? Do you blame a lion for killing a zebra, or attacking a human? No, because it’s instinctual, they’re not thinking of it as killing, to them it’s food. If you train a cheetah and say it’s tame and then it comes and attacks you, is it the cheetah’s fault? Or is it yours? It’s yours for letting things get out of hand, isn’t it? Animals have minds, they can be loyal, but when it comes down to it, there’s instinct too. You can’t blame the animal for following instinct.
And if the devil possessed a dragon, is it the dragon’s fault? Is it the snake’s fault for being shown as a symbol of the devil in Genisis? No. It’s an animal, can it actually fight off the devil? I wouldn’t think so. So can you rightfully blame a dragon for being possessed by something evil, or rather Evil itself? I don’t see how you can.
And when you come down to it. The Devil can create nothing on his own.
My definition of evil is “Evil is the imitation of good.” Therefore evil can not exist without good, because without good, there would be nothing for evil to imitate therefore would also cease to exist. Therefore evil cannot win. The Devil cannot create and he can’t destroy either. He can tempt, but that is all. In the end, we destroy ourselves. Only God can create, therefore He created the dragon as well, right? And if one dragon chose to be evil you can’t condemn the whole race. Hitler killed hundreds of people, but you can’t condemn the whole human race for his mistakes. Castro was an awful person but you can’t blame all humans for that. Just because one is bad, one is a killer, one is, as you say, evil, doesn’t mean all are.
Not to mention that the word dragon is only used in The Book of Revelations and as far as the things in the Book of Revelations go, it’s all symbolic. In the introduction, itself, to the book it says that the book is purely symbolic and visions and that “Symbolic descriptions are not to be taken as literal desriptions nor is the symbolism meant to be pictured realistically.”
I wish I had more time to adress the other points. But I look foward to hear how you justify blaming the whole of dragons for several purely symbolic verses that could’ve actually been saying serphant or other words…
~Emily
Comment by Emily — December 3, 2008 @ 2:29 pm |
If I understand you correctly, then both Catholics and Protestants are not Christians. Make sure you let the Pope know, I’m sure that will be news to him.
“Evil is everything that opposes to God.” –This is your definition. For every person in the world you will have a new definition. If some person decides that eating beef, or watching TV, or reading the New International Version of the Bible is evil… is it? To them it may be. That does not make it fact, its an opinion.
“Sorry, but I don’t claim “translation error do not validate an argument”. What I claim is “there is NO translation error in the Bible”. Think about it for a moment, a Christian believes that the Bible is God’s precious Words. If he/she also believes that the Bible contains errors, then what kind of God he/she actually believes in?” –Once again, you seem to be saying that because YOU have decided that your particular copy of a book written almost 2000 years ago is 100% correct, there is no room for debate. The bible is the work of man. God has never taken quill to paper and written so much as a single letter for us to read. Even Jesus himself never wrote a single word. Odd that God would bother to send “His only begoten son” to walk amongst us, teach us the error of our ways and then sacrifice himself for our redemption, but cant take the time to write some simple guidelines down while he visits. Every single word in the bible was penned by man. If you embrace the Word of God, and claim that its infallible, why aren’t you quoting the prophet Mohamed to me? He also claims to have spoken to God, he even claims to have been taken to heaven. Or are you only selectively endorsing the word of God, and the passages you support are 100% correct?
I would also like to support Daniels comments above. Supposedly Christian religion is based on brotherly love and forgiveness. I find the intolerance and judgmental attitude of many of its professed followers to be a mark of shame.
Comment by Shadow Dragon — December 5, 2008 @ 6:15 pm |
Shadow Dragon Allot of those who believe they are Christians are not once again the name Christian means to be Christ Like that means you would be willing to lay down your life to save the most vile of men Like he did
I can’t even say that I am a Christian cause I know that I would not die to save the drunk down the street much less the rapist/murderer in jail nor is my love so great that I would live my life like Mother Teresa
Now I know your going to say well how can any man be saved then the truth is no man can In and of his own power For the way is narrow and straight and there is few that find it.
That why Jesus came lived and died and rose again that we threw his example and threw the power of God that we might love God and others and be saved
I being a long time searcher of what is right and what is wrong Have search many believes and religion because I knew there Has to be a God (deep down we all know there is)I also knew there has to be more to life then Eat drink and be marry for tomorrow we die
and out of all the things I have done and tried for self satisfaction none of them made a difference In my life except the Bible it is the only thing I have found that has the power to change ones life for the better
Comment by Daniel — December 6, 2008 @ 2:24 am |
Hi Emily, Shadow Dragon, and Daniel, thank you all for your comments.
I will address Emily’s concern first.
“The word for dragon in Latin is “Draco”, problem with Latin, however is, words can mean many things. Draco for instance can mean beast, serpent, dragon, or monster. Therefore you can’t claim that dragons were mentioned when the word “dragon” was merely added as the best fit for what the Bible was saying.”
That is a very interesting bit of information but as I point out already in the previous comment, this article is not about the identification of dragons. This article does not try to say: “Hey, there are dragons in the Bible and this is how they look like.” The main point of this article is the questionable rising in popularity of dragons in this modern time. Dragon had never been such a widespread symbol as it is today (at least, in America). It seems that people suddenly develop a strange fascination for dragons. You won’t see that kind of fascination 30 or 40 years ago. Those fierce-looking images of dragons are used as the prime examples in this article. You seem to focus on the question: “Why target dragons and not another animal?” The reason is simply there is nothing good about dragons in the Bible at all. Then you seem to ask: “Is the dragon in the Bible the dragon we see in many places nowadays or is it simply a beast, serpent, monster…etc?” I believe firmly that it is the dragon we see in many places nowadays, maybe not the exact physical attributions but the same form of fierceness and wickedness. The Bible does use words like “beast, serpent, lion, dove…” in different verses with clear meaning so I don’t think that the Bible confuses dragons with other animals.
“I also agree that animals are given Free Will, therefore allowing them to chose. But can an animal have a sense of what is right and wrong? Do animals have a soul? I think it’s widely agreed that they do not. Therefore how can you condemn them for their actions if they have no knowledge of right or wrong?”
Yes, absolutely. The problem is the dragon itself is a representation of the devil (Satan). Dragon, in the Bible, is not an actual specie but rather a symbol of the beast (the devil – Satan) when he reveals himself during the tribulation period. Dragon is not like a snake or lion or cheetah or any real animals in any biblical sense, that is why I said in my previous comment that dragon already chose the evil way and there is no good dragon in the Bible.
“Only God can create, therefore He created the dragon as well, right? And if one dragon chose to be evil you can’t condemn the whole race.”
That is the key point in your understanding and that is the main reason why you don’t get along with this article. Again, there is no “dragon race” which I’ve ever heard of and I never know anyone who claim to know for sure what the dragon is like. In all biblical senses, there is only one dragon and that is the incarnation of the devil himself. Even the images that come with this article, no one can know for sure that those are correct images of the real dragon. We can (hopefully) know for sure when the tribulation comes.
“Not to mention that the word dragon is only used in The Book of Revelations and as far as the things in the Book of Revelations go, it’s all symbolic.”
That’s right, it is all the matter of symbolic. The dragon is used consistently as a symbol of the devil in the Bible and that is why Dr. Todd don’t understand why dragons suddenly turn into a popular subject (at least, in America) nowadays. You should note that Dr. Todd question that phenomena, he does not question the beliefs, purposes, or attitudes of people who love dragons. Sure, time changes and so do people. What Dr. Todd points out after all is American society seems to move away from its Christian roots and there are clear signs of such a transition.
I hope that those clarification will help you understand this article better.
Now, I will address Shadow Dragon’s concern.
“If I understand you correctly, then both Catholics and Protestants are not Christians. Make sure you let the Pope know, I’m sure that will be news to him.”
No, I don’t think so. I believe the pope himself already knows full well how many Protestants and other “heretics” they have eliminated during the history of Catholicism. If you are interested in the matter, let me tell you that I am not a Protestant myself. Yes, you read it right, I am neither a Protestant nor a Catholic, I am simply a Christian who believe in God and His precious Words, the Bible.
“The bible is the work of man. God has never taken quill to paper and written so much as a single letter for us to read. Even Jesus himself never wrote a single word. Odd that God would bother to send “His only begotten son” to walk amongst us, teach us the error of our ways and then sacrifice himself for our redemption, but cant take the time to write some simple guidelines down while he visits. Every single word in the bible was penned by man.”
This is the main flaw in your understanding about Christianity. I am not sure whether you are a Christian or not but let me tell you this: a true Christian believes that the Bible is God’s precious Words and in fact, the Bible claims exactly that same thing. That is why I keep saying no true Christian can ever doubt about the accuracy of the Bible because if they do, they actually doubt about the God that they claim to believe in. They can sure doubt about the origin of some “versions” of the Bible since the Bible has been widespread from generations to generations and the devil is always lurking around waiting for chances to mess up with the Bible. However, God also promise to keep His Words (the pure Bible) till the end times so you can be sure that the devil can never destroy the Bible.
Talk about words of mouth and not written words, have you ever seen a journalistic interview? During an interview, the journalist will ask questions or in some cases, plainly converse with the person he/she is interviewing, then will record the answers/replies/conversation and publish them in an article. The person who is interviewed does not write down anything but the credential of his/her words (which is “penned” by the journalist) in the article remains the same.
“If you embrace the Word of God, and claim that its infallible, why aren’t you quoting the prophet Mohamed to me? He also claims to have spoken to God, he even claims to have been taken to heaven. Or are you only selectively endorsing the word of God, and the passages you support are 100% correct?”
Well, the god that Mohamed mentions of is the moon god not the God of the Bible so I don’t know what can Dr. Todd quote from him since Dr. Todd is a Christian. About selective manipulation, I never tell you to just read what is in the article and shut off your mind to everything else. I encourage you to read the Bible and see for your self its own wisdom and the way of God that leads to Salvation.
About love and forgiveness, it is true that a Christian is supposed to have love and compassion toward others. However, true Christians are never sissy and wimpy pacifists, you know, the kind of people that turn to the left and say yes, turn to the right and say yes, turn up and down and every known direction and say yes. Jesus Himself is not a pacifist either. A true Christian should discern himself/herself from the carnal world and adhere to fundamental teachings of the Bible so that his/her Christian testimony can truly and positively influence other people.
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — December 6, 2008 @ 4:57 am |
The news today is full of attempts to “Spin” information in order to provide a more interesting story. Slight distortions, that spice up the tale a bit and tailor it to your needs. Do you think this hasn’t been the case for centuries? Every time you insist that “no true Christian can ever doubt about the accuracy of the Bible” and at the same time “he Bible is God’s precious Words” you seem to be insisting that God has written this down. Even in your model of a collection of interviews, what EXACTLY to write has been chosen by man. The symbols chosen, the wording used, the tone and intent of the interview, are all the work of man. How many times have you seen the case where after a person is interviewed, they read the interview and are unhappy with what is published? As a friend of mine who works in the newspaper business can tell you, this is a daily occurrence. Unless you are insisting that God suspended free will for the duration of the interview, possessed the hand of our reporter, and did, in fact, write it himself.
This “Pure Bible” you talk about, cannot by definition exist. Every time you translate any work of literature, another level of human error is introduced. To top that off, what of the many books excluded from the bible? Who decided to remove them? Not God. A collection of elderly “Priests and Scholars.” Every version of the bible ever written claims to be the “Pure Bible” yet there are enough differences in them that one faction or the other constantly claims one side is distorting the truth.
Dragons are simply one victim, in this whole charade. When Christianity attempted to make inroads with the cultures of Europe, they demonized many of the symbols of the native religions. Christians told these “Pagans, heretics, and heathens” that their old religions were “The voice of Satan.” The church made an active campaign to stamp out non-believers who resisted, and when resistance was too strong, they adopted the ways of the natives in an attempt to bring them into the fold without resistance. By the way, please enjoy celebrating the winter solstice this year. You can verify yourself, the feast you call Christmas is a christian plagiarism of “Dies Natalis Solis Invicti.”
Comment by Shadow Dragon — December 7, 2008 @ 3:48 pm |
You misunderstand me. You spoke of dragons as a living thing therefore I adressed things in a similar manner. Also, my opinions are not a “concern”, they are what I think, and will continue to believe. I don’t think I’m going to go to hell for writing and reading books, watching films, and other things to do with dragons.
It’s a complete matter of opinion and judgement. My firm belief is that if you know your faith, you understand it, and aren’t straying from it, why take out things that are harmless to a strong mind. I understand the problems with porn, it’s a direct contradiction of the Ten Commandments, there’s other things I understand and agree with. But when it comes to vampires, werewolves, dragons, mythical things, I never understand the prejudice against them. I do understand why some may look on them with scorn, but I think it’s a matter of strength of mind, strength of faith, and pure opinion.
As far as the Christian thing goes. I believe he’s saying he’s undenominational. Which basically means he’s obsessed with the Bible because that’s the only source of faith he has. He has no church, except for maybe more of a gathering type thing…I think. I’m just going by what it sounds like.
The Bible is Divinely Inspired, therefore saying that God was writing through these men, but Shadow Dragon is correct. The men still used their own take on it, their own word usage, and of course human error. Just because the Bible is Divinely Inspired doesn’t mean that human error didn’t take a part in translations.
Comment by Emily — December 7, 2008 @ 6:55 pm |
ARE YOU GUYS SERIOUS.YOU MAKE OF THE DRAGON WHAT YOU WILL .AS IN YOUR MIND, SO SHALL YOUR DRAGON BE.MINE IS BENEVOLENT AND NOBLE.
Comment by RED DOG — December 11, 2008 @ 12:10 pm |
This is the most ignorant piece of writing I have ever read. Dragons are mythical creatures, they are fairy tales – nothing more. Symbols can’t hurt you, they mean nothing. Any one who believes in this propaganda clearly can not think on their own – and need a book written thousands of year ago that contradicts its self and was miss translated to suit the political needs of a king. Not to mention that the belief in a religion that stole ideas from the pagans (i.e. a god born in human form on earth, Christmas, Halloween, Easter) in order to make conversion easier on them is ignorant to begin with.
This article is just, well silly, really. It’s right there with those who wanted to ban Harry Potter books. I pity your weak mind. I hope someday you wake up and realize the truth, that your religion is built on the blood of it’s enemies, and is nothing more then a political tool to help control a group of people who wouldn’t behave themselves with out the fear of an all seeing all powerful being punishing them. I am with out religion, and I haven’t killed, robbed, or harmed anyone. I obey the law and live a moral life, and I do it because I know it’s right – not because some god told me it was.
It is called common sense, I suggest you find some of your own.
Comment by Kellie — December 11, 2008 @ 8:27 pm |
I have to agree with Kellie. That being said, I find it humorous that so many people would believe in and follow a spiritual text that has been copied and copied and copied and translated, losing all its original meaning, based on the belief that the people who translated it were somehow “inspired by god and therefore cannot be wrong”.
The world is quickly coming to a point where the gulf between the ignorant followers of orthodox religions (and there IS no such a thing as “non-denominational”. There are, quite literally, as many denominations as there are people, as the bible is interpreted by every individual differently. In fact, one could say that there are as many RELIGIONS as there are people. Even when people come together in their belief systems, as in say, a church, they only think alike to the extent that they are able to get along without killing or maiming one another over their differences.
To answer your question (What is happening? Why such a fascinating interest in dragons? It never used to be this way.) people are better able to access freely intellectual concepts, symbolism, expressive artistic works, and historical data because it’s the INFORMATION AGE. As an artist, I think the information age is one of the best things to happen since the known history of the world. Said age is undermining the manipulative prowess of those who seek control over others using religious beliefs (I have a theory: they are on the run and are cornered in the stock market :)) which, the original ideas aside, perhaps, have only ever been used for just that.
The Greek philosopher Plato stated, like his teacher, that a man would have to be a fool to put any type of spiritual text in writing for future generations. It’s just a fact that no two people will ever interpret the same text the same way, leading eventually to dissension. This is where most Christians argue that it is “Faith” that lets them know the truth. Yet the dissension remains. Between religions, between churches, within the churches, and between people, faith fails.
Only one can be right, and personally, if the mystery has to be so deep, so ambiguous to gain your salvation, then I don’t want any part of it either.
Before there was a god, and monotheism, there were multiple gods and goddesses, and long before that, the chief deities of society were female. The serpent represents knowledge. I find it truly difficult to believe that, if there is a god/goddess, he/she would want us to live in ignorance. Yet that theme is continuously echoed throughout the bible, if you interpret it the way you seem to: “Don’t eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil! Women are meant to be creatures servile to men!” The distinction between Christian fundamentalism and Muslim extremism is clouded at best.
Comment by disillusioned — December 13, 2008 @ 8:29 pm |
Hi everyone,
Again, this article continues to amaze me because just about a week, there are many more comments about it and the most amazing thing is, they are all the same or, at least, fall into some common trends. I actually address those common trends in some my previous comments (comment #52 is the main one) so I advise all who want to put a comment about this article to read comment #52 first because it may already answer your concerns and questions.
Here are some of my thoughts about recent comments.
1. “The Bible has mistakes because it is copied/translated by men many times.”
I am really getting tired of this, and believe me, I receive this kind of response countless of time when I witness to other people (especially young ones) and almost all people who declared that to me have never ever touched the Bible left alone studying or researching about it. In fact, when I ask them about those mistakes, they answered things like: “Go Google it yourself” or “the Bible contradicts itself” or “my parents/relatives/friends/teachers (who happen to be atheists themselves) told me so”…etc, some even claimed that the Bible was written originally in ancient Latin. I usually ask them: What about yourself? Have you ever seriously studied or, at least, researched the Bible or you just typed something into Google and ended up reading a bogus article from an atheistic website which claims that the Bible contains mistakes. About those so called “mistakes”, have you ever discussed them with a pastor, a doctor or any Christians who have studied about Christianity or you just tell yourself: “That’s it, I finally find the justification for my disbelief”? I find it amazing that many people go as far as claiming “mistakes” in the Bible just to back up their disbelief. Why don’t just tell it straight out that you don’t believe God because you naturally don’t? It’s a lot shorter and faster for the world to understand.
Some one here just claimed that the “new” Bible removes some books from the “original” Bible which is another proof of what I just said in the previous paragraph.
Another problem for many people is that they judge God by human standards. Put it another way, they think of God as some forms of superhuman but not beyond human so they think that God cannot escape the imperfection in which human beings are bounded. The truth is, God is beyond human, He is the creator of this universe. Certainly, if you don’t believe in God then there is nothing to argue here but if you believe in God and simultaneously believe that the Bible has errors, you must seriously question yourself: Do I believe in a god who spoke this world into creation but could not manage to get all errors out of the Bible? If you truly believe so, then I’m afraid that the god you are believing in is not the God of the Bible.
2. “Christianity is created to control/take advantage of/enslave/rape/murder/people.”
This is another age-old reply I usually get when I witness to other people. “Control people”??? If Christianity is about controlling people then I and many other Christians wouldn’t need to go out and witness to other people. Do you seriously believe that I will gently ask others whether they want to be controlled by me if I truly wanted to control them? Do you think that people like Hitler or Mao Zedong will gently ask you whether you want to be controlled by them? And Hell is to scare people??? That definitely reminds me of how frustrate Noah was when he tried to convince people that the flood is coming soon. By the way, you don’t need to bring up things like the Crusade because they mean nothings. The people who stood behind things like the Crusade are not Christians, yes they claim to be Christians but they are not. All kinds of people claim to be Christians but if you look closely at what they do you will see that they are not. Do you need an example? Let me give you one: even George Bush claims to be a Christian. Do you dare saying that Christians are invading Iraq nowadays?
3. “I don’t believe in God because there are so many “denominations” out there who are fighting with each others.”
There are many different and competitive singers out there, do you stay away from music just because of that? What about cars, computers, schools, books,…etc, do you stay away from them all because they are diverse. By the way, you should believe in God and the Bible not those “denominations”. Why blame God for humans’ faults?
Regards
Comment by Bearing The Cross — December 13, 2008 @ 10:01 pm |
total mierda
Comment by Anonymous — December 18, 2008 @ 6:10 am |
I will only post here once, because any more would only infuriate me further. I simply cannot believe how self-righteous you all are. I suppose since Satan is an angel, then all angels are bad and praying to any of them or having anything to do with any of them will condemn you to hell as well. Your reasoning is ridiculous and your thought processes are laughable. To say the kjv is the one true bible is unbelievably idiotic. Man wrote the bible…therefore, no matter which way you look at it (divine guidance or not–man screws up everything even with guidance), the story-tale called the bible is no more than that. Ya….they lived 900 years way back then and since then, we live “shorter” life spans????? HAHAHAHAHAHA, must be because we “sin” so much! Get off your stupid “thou art the friggin bomb” pedestal and start looking at humanity. Your stupid religion has massacred hundreds of millions of people in the name of “God”. Paste that knowledge to your friggin head and wear it around like the tag you all deserve.
Comment by lynks2me — December 19, 2008 @ 10:06 pm |
Hey Daniel, I’m actually closer to the truth than you think.
If you read the first half of the bible it talks about smashing other religions totems, burning their important documents, and smashing their temples to the ground, in hopes to extinguish the existing belief system and convert them. If you know anything about history, you know that a lot of people still practiced Paganism while being catholic, and it angered the people in charge of the church, so they started accusing them of witchcraft, being satanists, hating god, not obeying the bible, and that they were going to hell for such actions. Now where have I heard that recently… Oh! In this exact article! Worshipping the dragon is bad, for the bible tells me so, in it’s ambiguous, can I even trust the credibility of the author-sort-of way.
Seriously, if this were the dark ages or renaissance period, and we talked about our love of dragons, and were seen with our dragon art work, we’d be tortured till we confessed we were witches, be forced to confess who else we knew were witches, and then we’d be burned alive at the stake. Any history buff will tell you so.
Comment by Noah — December 21, 2008 @ 9:48 am |
Yeah! What Noah said!
If you base the truth of your life on one book, and your interpretation of it, well then, you can never be wrong (at least, not to yourself).
I myself studied the bible from a more scientific standpoint for several years, along with Hebrew, and the Tanakh (the Torah, Nevi’im, and Kethuvim), and I think I am qualified to say that the bible DOES contradict itself, many, many times, not to make mention here of the missing pieces….and there are many.
Additionally, many would say the Torah, upon which the practice of modern Judaism is based, is an extremely racist book, promoting bigotry toward other religions and races. Hence the rise of the Hasidic (Hasid means pious) Judaism. Just try to marry a Hasidic Jews daughter if your not Jewish and see how far you get.
A retort may be made that jesus came and fulfilled the law, blah blah blah…but most Jews (and by most I mean almost all) would tell you that the so-called “New Testament” has no place in the holy books. That it was written in Greek and not in their “holy” language. That there is no such thing as an “Old Testament”. I could go on, and on, and on.
Bearing The Cross: I’m very sorry for you. Someone must have hurt you deeply for you to carry the burden of such a belief system around with you. I hate to point this out to you, but what about that verse at the end of Rev. You know, the one where jesus proclaims himself (through John, of course) the “bright and morning star”? Does that mean he’s lucifer? I mean, since one of the names of lucifer is the morning star. And I can’t recall how many times (but it’s quite a few) it was said in your book that lucifer sat at the right hand of god in order to oppose him. Don’t people say jesus sits at the right hand of god? So which is it?
The only reason the New Testament was even allowed to be written in the first place was because the christian movement had become so dangerous to the state. Then, eventually, the church took over, in 325 A.d., when Constantine, a Roman emperor, began the consolidation (and destruction) of existing religions into a one world religion. It was obey, or die. Pay homage to the christ, or become extinct. Constantine basically found a way to profit off the very religion that threatened him.
How many travesties have been had at the hands of christianity? Who are christians to point the finger at muslims? The burning of the Library at Alexandria (we can only guess at the knowledge lost there), the murder of millions, and do you want to talk about “persecution”?
christianity, like all fundamentalist religions, is the pursuit of ignorance, generally, and only seeks to destroy knowledge. Knowledge that threatens it’s existence. Like any good religion created by man.
Comment by disillusioned — December 21, 2008 @ 1:52 pm |
Yeah! What Disillusioned said! Especially the destroying of knowledge part.
Comment by Noah — December 22, 2008 @ 3:24 am |
i like this site
Comment by chickens go pop — December 22, 2008 @ 5:22 pm |
Bearing The Cross
About your comment: “The world will be totally deceived by the dragon and the world is obviously getting ready for him now. Never before in the history of mankind has there been so much interest in Satanism; witchcraft; the occult and other evil practices.”
This is not accurate. At one time, the entire world worshiped deities that had nothing to do with christianity, not only when christianity didn’t even exist, but thereafter as well. Those same religions, christianity would label as devil worship, satanism, etc…and at one time or another (and another), tortured and murdered people for worshiping their “false” deities.
The entire world, “Bearing the cross”. And most of those civilizations lived in relative peace before x-tianity came along.
We can only hope for as much once again. That the world will once again consist of free thinking, open-minded, people on their pursuit of knowledge. It’s either that, or a return to the dark ages.
Comment by disillusioned — December 22, 2008 @ 8:57 pm |
you know nothing of dragons if you think there bad.this is the one thing that bugs me alot.we are tought not to judge yet you judge all dragons against one serpent in the bible. Do you judge people the same as adem was tempted by the serpent there for does that make him bad and if he is judged bad by you does that not make,by your reasoning on the dragons side, every one in the world bad.when wilkl people learn that the bible is more a book of teatching then a book of fact. and please before you chalenge me on this look up all the bits they left out the bible.
Comment by Paul — December 26, 2008 @ 5:19 am |
Paul Bad example why you ask
Because all men are evil I mean think about it you don’t have to teach a man to lie or be selfish he naturally is all man naturally want to do whats wrong if you were to ever raise a kid with out ever telling him NO thats Bad he either Die because of his wrong doings or become a monster that only cared about himself
If some one is never told whats right or wrong he naturally dose wrong
so there for all men are genetically evil this is a fact that has been proven 1000x over the only humanity has not wiped it self out is because of books like the Bible and the laws made from them to protect humanity I mean look at USA all its laws were based on the Bible and even tho its one of the youngest country s its the most prosperous
Now you watch the as the US stops fallowing the Bible you will see that great country fall and go into shambles Id bet my life on it :(
Comment by LordMaddog — January 1, 2009 @ 12:52 pm |
Hi,
the religion is the source of all wars in the world.
You talk about Jesus but you don’t live like Jesus.
The demons, devils or something like this, live in our minds;
nothing more than an apology for our bad behavior.
excuse me for my limited english
be a honest human, nothing more
Comment by Maurício (Brazil) — January 1, 2009 @ 2:54 pm |
Just becauser the bible lables satan as a dragon des not mean anything!!! I can discribe u as a puss filled vomit worm, does that make it true? a PERSON wrote these words you follow so closely, and person who had a dream, answer this for me, with all your “quotes from the bible” prove to be that these men did not make this up or use there own words to discribe this dragon satan, with out quoting the bible. To make a true fight up here, you can not make facts and arguments by laying out quotes from a book that has NO FACTUAL BASE LINE! Just because Dragon is described as bad means nothing, at the time this was writen people knew nothing of real improtants of dragons, and if dragon is real, then you have just layed dow one of “Gods” creatures and shit on it. And yes, you are JUDGING who are you to decide if you are judging or not are you god, I think not do you talk to god, better yet does he talk back to you? And I swear if you quote the bible to defend your self, then you are a religous nut with not facts just stories to suport your ass, and yes I hope you are extremely offended by this, the day someone like you decideds to go an preach your twisted version of the bible have some balls and accually back your shit up with facts. And what really gets my is that dragons, just like Dinosaurs are related more to BIRDS THAT SERPENTS!! And another thing, the next time you decide to preach this shit, just remeber, one day your god will kill you, and guess what they ain’t nothing but worms and empty voids for your ass. God might say come as you are, but noone wants your ass in heaven. And the BIBLE IS NOT THE WORD OF GOD, it is simply a few old guys views on what they inturpret gods word to be, and in turn alow you to translate as you please, so yes go a head an read what you think he means, but noone gives a shit what you think. I hope dragons are real, and once day one shits on you. Just so you know how your making them look. And just because they have teeth, and are big means nothing, whales are big, sharks are big, dogs are little but they’ll still fuck you up. I have a feeling nothing I can say will change you mind on you view, but again, I dont care, but Stop preaching on shit you aviously know nothing about.
Sincerly
Your new worst enemy
And Thank you for all the free minded people who posted on here with proof. I know I stated no real proof, but do i need to, this religious nut nvr did.
Feel free to email me
Comment by Your new worst enemy — January 9, 2009 @ 1:13 pm |
listen as far as i know not only do most christians walk around woth a prehistoric torture device around their necks but they also (in the way past) propegated a “holy crusaide” where hundreds of thousands where MURDERD in the name of christ. Now i belive in god but the bible was writen by man for man and therfore should not be trusted and anyone who follows something without question or on Faith that the men and women before them have any clue whats going on are bound to disapointment in the next life, now i am not telling you to stop believing in something greater than themselves because we wouldnt exist without something greater than ourselver but i find it hard to believe that such an omnipotent being would say (now im paraphrasing here) OH saitain you tried to become beter than me so instead of distroying you completly im going to give you your own domain, HELLO CLUE PHONE ITS FOR YOU now i believe in god as a benevolent being that looks at ones deds and decides wether or not you shall become one with him again or to come back to the earth till you learn your lessons. no myself i think all the holly rollers will be judged diferently than they think and remember jesus was JEWISH and never asked to have a religion based on him and remember “Judge not lest ye be judged yourself” now as far as dragons being evil in many cultures they are symbols of great good and in some just the oposit, you think maybe that like all things there may be two sides to the coin and there be both good and evil in all walsk of life and that too bieng in the symbolism of the dragon i collect dragons , good ones evil ones but you know what if one where to ever apear on the earth then maybe i would be scared outa my wits by it. the bible says many things nad most basic of it all is, do good and good will come to thee now the rest of what it says is just for the sake of controll you know that religion is the most profitable buisness in the world??? if not you have your blinders on and need to remove them and ask yourself whats really going on….. believe whats you wish. as long as you feel good in your heart and share that good then even the god of the bible couldnt condemn you. AN IT HARM NONE DO AS THOU WILST (that includes oneself)
Comment by stalis blade — January 9, 2009 @ 4:53 pm |
So it’s been awhile since I came here and read through these. Dudes, seriously, could you please learn some grammar? I can hardly understad most of what’s being said. I’m not speaking of the one person who apologized for their lack of English, his was better than most of yours. I never realized writing correctly was so complicated.
Anyway, I disagree with most of what is flying around. You guys are now attacking the Bible and Christianity, if you look at what he’s quoting, it’s not even about the Bible. It’s about one book, Revelations, being taken litterly instead of symbolically like it was meant to be taken.
I disagree with this article as much as you, but I disagree with your reasoning. Religon isn’t the cause of the wars, that would be humanity. The Bible isn’t the cause of destruction, if everyone followed it’s teachings there wouldn’t be murder and chaos, so don’t go blaming everything that goes wrong on those “religous people”.
As I said many times, dragons were spoken of many times in Greek and Chinese litterture before Revelations, and they were not always considered evil. Not to mention it’s only in Revelations that dragons are mentioned, a purely symbolic book, not meant to be taken litterly. And the dragon that is described “Then another sign appeared in the sky, it was a huge red dragon, with seven heads and ten horms, and on its heads were seven diadems.” Think about that. “another SIGN”, it was a sign, so John (the writer of the book) called it a dragon (or most likely beast) because he had no other name for it. It says nothing about wings, or fire breathing, or anything of the sort, so explain to me how you can even compare all the dragons of every culture with this verse in the Bible. If we called the dragons of today Calandras you wouldn’t even be talking about this. Because they would have no similarities, you could not compare them to dragons. The only reason you do, is a name. One name, that has been around for longer than the New Testament in several languages.
Please, so yourself a favor, get over it. This is one opinion which you can never get the entire world to accept. I know that won’t stop you from trying but it’s my advice, take it or leave it.
Comment by Emily — January 10, 2009 @ 1:13 pm |
I just like them
Comment by Anonymous — January 11, 2009 @ 5:46 am |
Dear Bearing the Cross:
You did not answer my post.
That aside, yes, I agree that there’s something strange going on with this dragon phenomenon. I happen to own a copy of George Elliot Smith’s “Evolution of the Dragon” and it proves that dragons are the representations of pagan water deities, so yes, Christians should avoid them.
I used to like dragons, but then I realized that came from my love for natural reptiles, like dinosaurs (which I DO NOT think are fossilized demons like some Christians say they are). Dinosaurs are real-life giant reptiles. I don’t see why they aren’t as popular as dragons. Maybe its because the dragon is associated with magical power and is intelligent.
The dragon is a composite monster, much like the griffin on a heraldic crest. The various parts come from animals associated with water. Ever heard of the makara? Its an Indian monster that looks like its part fish and part goat and sometimes looks like a cross between a pig and a crocodile.
Anyways, I’ve met people online who love dragons and hate reptiles, I’ve read books that stated that dragons were not reptiles but mammals, and a buddy of mine killed himself over dragons just recently. That is why I have given up on dragons.
There are lots of nice dinosaurs that make good substitutes for dragons. Nanshiungosaurus is a close match. Dinosaurs open doors to scientific study for Christians and atheists alike. I would highly recommend your opponents study dinosaurs instead – its much more rewarding and guilt-free.
Comment by Ghidora — January 15, 2009 @ 6:06 pm |
ghghghgh
Comment by Anonymous — January 26, 2009 @ 11:38 am |
4 1 thing, the Bible does not always refer 2 dragons as bing satan. Like in…
De 32:33
Neh 2:13
Job 30:29
Ps 44:19, 74:13, 91:13, 148:7
Isa 13:22, 27:1, 34:13, 35:7, 43:20, 51:9
Jer 9:11, 10:22, 14:6, 49:33, 51:34, 51:37
Eze 29:3
Mic 1:8
Mal:1:3
The only book that refers 2 dragons as satan is Revelation.
Comment by Sammy — January 27, 2009 @ 7:49 pm |
The Bible seems 2 indicate that dragons were real animals. In Ps 148:7 the Psalmist tells us…
“Paise the Lord from the earth, ye dragons, and all deeps:”
Y would he tell something that didn’t exist 2 praise God? Mayb they were real. I don’t think that they blew fire and stuff like that. That’s just folklor, but the Bible tells us of them as sea creatures alot.
(The Bible also mentions Unocorns 2, but I don’t know were that is.)
Comment by Sammy — January 27, 2009 @ 8:09 pm |
Dragons are cool!! i have 2 do a report on them at school and draw three pics of them and different features.
Comment by Anonymous — January 28, 2009 @ 6:18 pm |
weird people come in weird packages so watch out for those strangely wrapped packages!! lol i know this has nothing 2 do with dragons
Comment by Kala Dreyming — January 28, 2009 @ 6:19 pm |
Sammy is correct, the only book to refer to dragons as agents of Satan is Revelation. A book written by a madman, in a cave, seeing things.
Comment by Friend — February 22, 2009 @ 3:29 am |
awsome poster of dragons
Comment by Phoenix — February 24, 2009 @ 5:59 pm |
you can think anything about dragons that you want. i personally think that they are awesome, but that is my opinion. you can think of dragons as evil and scary you can also think of them as good, gerous creatures. but if there really were such a think as dragons then God created them in the garden of Eden and He called them “very good” along with the rest of creation. and by the way, why should we be arguing among ourselves, like the Sadducees and Pharisees, when there is a whole world out there that needs the love of christ? just a thought.
Comment by Mushroom — February 26, 2009 @ 10:01 pm |
es interesante el estudio biblico que hacen de satanas como a un dragon, biblicamente, pero para entender el porque se asemeja a una fabula medieval se necesita ser muy espiritual para entender estos misterios reales y no segun la mente humana mitologicos ni fabulosos.
Comment by ISMAEL — March 1, 2009 @ 4:50 pm |
i’m american… and this place honestly gets on my last nerve. and besides, dragon or not, he’s going down. so worrying about dragons here and there is irrelevant since satan is ‘already’ defeated.
Comment by pants — March 11, 2009 @ 10:59 pm |
stailis blade your point of view is out in the left filed when the balls in the right
God made angels but he found he could not be close friends with them and eventually they betrayed him so the second time around he made man in his own image some one who he could be close friends with but he also new with out trials and testing they would not be worthy of his friendship so he let the devil test us and thos of us who follow the devil and his evil way will follow him to his punishment
as for the punishment both us and the devil are immortal and not even God can destroy us without breaking his own laws and sence hes perfect he cant do that so we have to burn for ever and ever
on dragons tho this guys out there
here a pic for all you sword and dragon lovers http://lordmaddog.deviantart.com/art/DragonSword-103036172
Comment by LordMaddog — March 16, 2009 @ 1:37 am |
Hi all, Satan here. Listen, I should set the record straight on dragons. I’m afraid I’ve given the dragon a bad rap which it does not deserve. I apologize, it was all just a part of a publicity campaign to make myself seem scarier than I actually am (I know, hard to believe, right?). There was a time when my influence on mankind was waning and I felt my image was in need of a makeover of sorts. I mean, how long can the whole man-goat thing really hold up, right? That was really only scary for the 1st few thousand years, then it got kind of old. So anyway, I started looking around for a more imposing image to use as the “new-look Satan” and lo-and-behold, I came upon the dragon.
Whoo! Those things are scary! Even I almost pissed myself when I first saw one, and that reaction alone told me I’d found my new look! Worked pretty well too. I mean look how dragons are treated as a result! Knights hunt them down ruthlessly, they’re nearly always portrayed as evil, and they’re always to blame when a maiden goes missing. And need I remind you folks that dragons are almost always the villain in nearly any medieval-themed movie or book? I mean, look at The Hobbit, right? Smaug, that’s me, baby! Thanks J.R.R., you helped keep me relevant well into the 70’s with that shit! I’m still angry at Peter Jackson for skipping right over The Hobbit! Screw Sauron, Smaug was the original bad-ass, am I right?
But I digress… I just wanted to set the record straight and let dragons off the hook. They’re actually really quite nice beings, and intelligent too! As a matter of fact, many of them have engaged in battle with me for centuries in protest of my usurping their image. Boy, those up-jumped lizards are tough SOB’s when they’re riled up! Kind of validates why I picked them in the first place, really. So anyway, I, Satan, just wanted to drop in to tell you folks to get a freakin’ life and stop fearing dragons. They weren’t that bad to begin with, and thanks to my giving them such a bad name, their all dead anyhow. So nothing to fear. Get over it.
Besides, I’ve got a new image… you all probably know me as your former VP. And you thought Bush was running things, you silly humans!
Satan-out!
Comment by Anonymous — March 29, 2009 @ 4:43 am |
The amazing thing is that you people actually believe that a bunch of stories told by a bunch of illiterates, passed by word of mouth, over thousands of years (heh, probably even more than 6,000… heh heh) are somehow the amazing revelation of some all-powerful fairy. Have you never played telephone? Seriously? And then you want people who disagree with you to use the same fallacious reasoning as you in order to do the disproving? OMG, this world is going to hell in a handbasket not because of “sinners” but because of people who can’t actually think for themselves, critically analyze the world around them, and draw reasoned conclusions thereof. Wow. Just Wow.
Comment by Anonymous — March 29, 2009 @ 11:17 am |
KK, my mistake. BUT ANYWAYS!!!
Dear Bearing the cross,
What I think most of these peoples are trying to say is they love dragons but only as an ANIMAL. Like u no, how they are represented as an animal like who in the right mind would like dragons for evil blood thirsty creatures who are bent on evil uh… ness. But if you had thought about this, it should technically be able to be ok as long as you don’t WORSHIP them I mean like there’s MILLIONS of christians out there who like snakes, but you don’t go up to them and say it’s wrong to love them for being an ANIMAL!! And yes I am one of those people who are always reasearching about them and how does they relate to the snake? IF YOU KNEW ANYTHING ABOUT DRAGONS THEY ARE MORTAL ENEMIES!!!!!!! I’m so sorry if I seem angry but seriously it’s only wrong if you WORSHIP THEM. Worship and love are almost the same but so have their differences!
Also, man, everyone has a fave animal. Tigers, dogs, rabbits, crocodiles and even DRAGONS! What’s so wrong about that. (psst… snake theory ^^)
I worship God but my fave animals a dragon. And I personally think he’s okay with that.
–Hannah
Comment by Hannah — April 6, 2009 @ 1:43 am |
I find that this ‘article’ is very one-sided and ignores a few things. First, the word “dragon” did not exist in the ancient Hebrew and Greek language; the word used was much closer to ’sea monster’ or ‘large beast’ and so the people responsible for translating the text used the word “dragon” even though it did not exist in the original language. Second, I find the descriptions of Satan as a dragon as purely symbolic. This is comparable with the description of the devil as a roaring lion in 1 Peter 5:8. Does that mean lions are evil? If lions are used to describe the devil and that makes them evil, then we would have to call Jesus & God evil too because the Bible describes them as lions too. I think the main idea is that when pure evil or pure goodness takes over an animal/creature, or even humans for that matter, the traits most characteristic of them comes out in either very bad or very good ways. Another very important thing to understand is that the eastern and western understanding of the dragon is very different. The western understanding is of a violent, fearsome, fire-breathing, blood-thirsting creature. The eastern understanding is of a benevolent, wise, passionate creature that promotes well-being, peace and safety; it is highly respected for it’s wisdom and benevolence. Dragons have such strong character traits that when good they can embody pure goodness, wisdom and benevolence, or contrarily, when bad they can embody pure evil, violence and cunning behavior. I would say that’s very much like humans: when good, they can be world-changers for the betterment of man, but when bad, they can corrupt and destroy.
Comment by Megan — April 26, 2009 @ 11:48 pm |
i have a jade dragon ring, but i am christian, is that bad? even though i dont necissarily “worship” it? doesnt a jade dragon have a different meaning?
Comment by confused — June 11, 2009 @ 6:07 pm |
If I am not mistaken jade dragon ring is from china and Japan both see dragons as a being of goodness and righteousness
In Japan the dragon or Ryu is tightly intertwined with Bushido witch means Way of the Warrior this was a Japanese code of conduct that was much like the Knights code but even more About Honor
a Jade dragon was a symbol of Royalty ,Honor ,loyalty ,and, Bushido
so by Japans standers by wearing it you are saying you have Honor your loyal and your willing to fight for what you believe in with the added meaning that you will always carry you self with dignity and grace
so as you see why it caries meaning I hardly would say that they are bad tho it dose mean why wearing it you should show your self as such less you be seen as a liar
as fro China I am not as well versed in but the Jade Dragon was a warrior who was commanded to kill innocent people by a wicked commander but did not instead he defended them being proclaimed a traitor and to make a long story sort after a life filed with hardship and always choosing what was right he was able to prove he was not a traitor
Comment by LordMaddog — June 14, 2009 @ 10:36 pm |